Designed and perfected by our own Felix Robbins
- Felix Lube
Felix Lube formula
2 Tablespoons mineral oil
1 Tablespoon castor oil
1 Tablespoon Ivory, or homemade soap (grated)
1 Tablespoon Lanolin
Beeswax - Piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1 "
Heat mineral (baby) oil until it starts to smoke.
Add castor oil, and stir continuously for 1/2 hour.
Sliver the soap, and stir into the mixture a little at a time, until melted.
Add the beeswax before the lanolin, and then when that is melted, reduce or remove the heat and add the lanolin, thus not running any risk of burning or scorching the lanolin.
1 teaspoon of carnauba wax can be added to give a shiny bore. This can be found on the seal of Makers Mark whiskey, or the red wax on cheese from the supermarket.
Once made, let cool. This can be re-melted in a microwave, and poured into the lubrisizer.
Metric Felix Lube
30ml Mineral oil
15ml Castor oil
15ml Ivory soap (grated)
2 deciliters Beeswax
As posted by Finn45
Before making any lube for the first time, read most if not all of the following posts to get a comprehensive insight. What goes wrong is almost always shootable, but keep in mind the lube(s) can be adjusted easily. Put lube into your lube machine only after it has proven satisfactory for your favorite loads....Felix
Pilgrim, the following is almost an exact copy of what was written previously. You can equal or surpass Veral's lube with beeswax, anhydrous lanolin, mineral oil, sodium stearate, castor oil, and paraffin. On the stove using a shallow pot, heat two tablespoons of baby oil (mineral oil). When starting to smoke, add a tablespoon of castor oil and raise to just below smoking (about 300 degrees) and continually stir for around an half hour. After the time is up, add slivers of Ivory soap (sodium stearate), making the slivers melt entirely by stirring one parcel before adding more. Use a razor blade to make the slivers, and saturate the mixture with the soap, but no more than a tablespoon's worth. Then add one tablespoon of lanolin. After mixing, add beeswax to make the final mixture per requirement. Add paraffin to the batch to make it a harder pan lube when beeswax is scarce. A special ingredient which impresses friends is Carnauba wax. It's not required to do the job, but it keep your barrel mirror bright after each shot. The next time you go to the cheese shop, pick a selection having a thick plastic wrapper. The Laughing Cow brand comes to mind. After enjoying the cheese, wash off the cover and mash up about a rounded teaspoon (not tablespoon) and melt this into your freshly made lube. Mix well....Now here comes a little more info: beeswax is the base, castor oil is the real lube, lanolin makes the lube sticky, stearate glues the mess together so it does not separate into components upon cooling, carnauba wax adds the shine, and paraffin is the ultimate hardener, to be used as a last resort...add more castor oil or lanolin to make the lube slicker for smaller bores and/or a winter lube. Always slick the barrel down with Hoppe's or other oily cleaner and then dry patch it with only one push-thru stroke before shooting.
As an addendum to the last post, the amount of carnauba wax added to a lube is critical when the so-called barrel shine is the objective after shooting. If using shoe polish for example, it would take more of it to get the proper amount of carnauba; if using pure carnauba, it won't take but a little. The amount does not hurt the lube, but it's the proper ratio in the final lube that counts to make the mirror-bright shine. You just gotta' play games to get to the correct amount.
Carpetman - This week I made my first batch of lube following the recipe from Felix. I am very pleased with the results. Two observations you may find helpful... First, any chance you had for that backrub will be history if you make this stuff in the house. The females in my house were very vocal in their displeasure at the odor of mineral oil and castor oil cooking. And the half hour cooking time just prolonged the agony. Second, as you add beeswax and it melts, its hard to guess how much to add to make a given hardness. By measuring the amount of beeswax I shaved off the block, if you use a piece about 4x1x1 inches you should be very close. I also added a small piece of paraffin, about the size of 2 sugar cubes. I applied the lube to some RCBS 180-SP for use in a 308Win and also the RCBS 240gr SWC to test in a 44Mag. Hope to shoot these soon and post the results.
I test fired loads lubed with the recipe Felix gave:
First was the 44 Mag- RCBS 240gr SWC over 23.0 gr of IMR-4227. This load chronos 1420fps in my Contender. There was zero leading and accuracy was at least as good as the same load with commercial lubes. ( @ 2in at 50yds, iron sights ) Next was the 308 Win - RCBS 180gr SP over 47.0grs of WC860. Haven't chronographed this load but would guess 1750 fps. Again zero leading, first 5 shot group measured 1.12in. I was happy with that as I have not fine-tuned this load yet. My conclusion is this lube is worth a try. My investment was about $22 and that buys enough ingredients to make a LOT of lube. The experiments will continue...
Made the lube yesterday. Lubed some bullets last night. Have enough ingredients to last a lifetime. I remember as a kid my mother giving me caster oil. God it was horrible. I think that was the only kid medicine they had. The bottle I bought was odorless, tasteless, imagine that. Today I'm going to make a round jig so it will be easier to put it in the lubersizer. ben.
Cut a cold block of the lube you made and see if it has any specific gravity layers. Existence means you did not use enough stearate (glue) to keep the other ingredients100 percent mixed upon cooling. Don't fret because the stearate is not really participating as a lube necessity....warm the batch up with your hands wearing rubber gloves and mix the batch until it's uniform before placing it into the luber machine.
Apparently did alright cause the lube same all the way thru. The consistency thru my lubersizer seems perfect. Used the exact formula, but did add 2 sugar cube size pieces of paraffin. Started with 1 1/2x1 1/2x4 inch piece of beeswax(4.95 a #. but added a 1 1/2x1 1/2 inch piece more. I did it in the garage on a hot plate, no smell but some smoke probably because of the odorless castor oil. Could be done in the house but I choose not too. I used as follows. 2 tablespoons baby oil, 1 tablespoon castor oil (odorless-tasteless), slivers of ivory soap (approx. size 2 to 3 inch dia. piece of paper (guessing), 1 tablespoon lanolin (slightly rounded) Followed your heating instructions to the letter. 1 1/2x1 1/2x6 inch bees wax, 2 sugar cube size paraffin. Stirred constantly. Only thing I didn't do was stir while cooling. ben.
10123: Felix lube don't stir while cooling, because that would destroy the test for homogeneity when cold.
10127: Felix lube felix: A while back, you gave me a company name (Witco) and a phone number where I might possibly get some sodium stearate for use in my lube instead of shaving Ivory soap, which is a pain. I called the number twice. Both times, I got an answering machine. I left my name and number and nobody has returned my call. Ithas been about two weeks. Is that company still in business? Do you know any other sources? cdaher
10129: Felix lube cdaher: I got up on Witco web site but couldn't get any information, so gave it up. I made a batch of lube yesterday and used ivory soap. The amount I used for a single batch could be sliced off a bar in 5 seconds. Today on a previous post I went thru the whole project and approx. amount of ivory soap I used. The end result came out perfect, in my opinion. Felix says the soap bonds it together and it was bonded for sure. If you have any questions on cooking the lube, ask cause it's fresh in my mine. You couldn't tell the difference between the home made stuff and the rcbs I'm using now. I've gotten the material to form it into sticks. When I build the jigs to pour the lube in, am going to cook some more lube. 2# of beeswax and a 1# of lanolin ought to last for 10 years. Could of bought 15 sticks of lube for what I have invested in material. But then I could shoot jacketed bullets also instead of lead. Feels good to do some things yourself. Could of boughen a hardness lead tester, but choose to make one, suitable for my purposes. ben.
10135: Felix lube Witco... One American Lane... Greenwich, CT 06831-2559... Telephone: 800.494.8673... Fax: 203.552.2448...Come to think about it, these guys might be on to us little folks trying to get samples for nothing. If there is enough interest in making this kind of lube, I will contact them with a real order for all of us. I might be able to get them go for a "few" legit pounds or so because they know they have already sent me "samples". They ask info about what the produce use is and I am sure, being a giant corp they might have this in their databases. I know we do at Baldor where I work. For that matter, if plain ol Ivory works, let's keep using that...not as convenient, but we don't make lube everyday....ben, next time try making it with III transmission oil instead of baby oil and let us know the shooting differences. Try not to use paraffin if you can, try more beeswax instead.....felix
10142: Felix lube felix: I won't use parrafin tomorrow, when I make another batch. Transmission fluid - I have Dextron ll. Will that work, or should I buy lll? I made 5 jigs to form the sticks that fit in the lubersizer. Probably 2 would of been enough. I hope it works. If you get that stearate I'll take some. Really didn't have a problem with the ivory soap. But of course haven't shot any bullets yet. How fast did you shoot with this formula, and what hardness? ben.
10148: Felix lube Ben, use III because you might not be able to get II anymore, or some folks reading these pages might not be able to. Make the bullets as you normally do and shoot them with the same load as you have been. Now gradually increase the speed to see if the accuracy remains. If so keep going and find the spot where things begin to open up and drop back to last incremental value. At this accuracy spot before you go up a notch, Look into the bore for about 1/2 inch and you should see some silver coloration other than black. This is the sign you are beginning to go past the limits of the alloy, so this is indeed the max speed. We actually want the bullet/bore/velocity to be maxed out. Shooting slower velocity than this point runs the risk of too much lube remaining in the bore which when gotten cold, will give a poor start up response without cleaning. If you see the silver wash, you can let the gun sit for a week, and then resume shooting with the same grouping capability with a cold barrel (assuming gun is correct..no warpage, etc.) after a quick one stroke swab, and one dry swab, to get the cold powder residue out....felix
10182: Felix lube felix: Made more lube today. Used mineral oil no parrafin. Mixed in what didn't fit in my lubersizer from the other day. I used 4 out of the 5 jigs, lube molds, might be a better name. If I had a little square box to put them in, you wouldn't be able to tell them, from factory. Had to buy around $2 worth of stuff, the rest I had, to build the molds. Worked slick. Made 4 sticks. That ought to last a year or two, as I also use Lee liquid alox. ben.
10183: Felix lube ben, tell us about those lube molds. what you make em out of.
10190: Felix lube carpetman: Material as follows for one mold: 6 inch long 1 inch Inside diameter and end cap plastic pipe. This takes care of outside diameter of lube stick. 3/8x8 inch pipe, solid or plastic or wood, mine is solid aluminum. This takes care of center hole of lube stick. Screw the end cap to a board with 2 -3/4 inch dry wall screws along the inside edge of the end cap. Drill a 3/8 inch hole thru the center of the end cap 1/2 inch into the wood, to receive the 3/8 inch pipe. If you drilled your 3/8 hole straight then it will be in the center of the 1 inch plastic pipe. If not drill a 3/8 inch hole in a piece of 1'' dowell to center it after filling with lube. Next you need a flat washer with a 3/8 inch hole that fits in the 1 inch pipe. I use a 1/2 inch copper pipe to push on the washer. I had let the lube cool and could pull the 3/8 inch pipe out ok, but lube wouldn't come out of the 1 inch pipe. Heated the 1 inch pipe with a hair drier and was able to push it out ok. Next time won't let the lube cool all the way to push it out. The inside diameter of my lyman lubersizers are 1 and 1/8 inches, don't know about RCBS. Leave the 3/8 inch pipe in when pushing the lube out. When the lube is out of the 1 inch pipe the 3/8 pipe might stick, don't push on the washer as it spreads the lube, just hold the lube and twist and it will come right off. Felix's basic formula makes 3 sticks, so would be wise to make at least 3 molds or more. ben.
10661: Felix lube felix, I made 2 batches of lube, ONE batch at a time. TOTAL incredients used. 4 tbs. baby oil--2 tbs. odorless caster oil--1/4 inch ivory soap from the bar end--2 tbs. lanolin SLIGHLY rounded--2 sugar cube parrafin--8 oz. beeswax. FIRST batch: Followed felix's cooking instructions to the letter as far as the baby oil,caster oil,soap,lanolin. This mixture was fairly liquid when I added 3 oz. beeswax(approx). I thought still to liquid, so added 2 sugar cubes parrafin. I filled one of my lubisizers with half of this. What was left over used in the second batch. Second batch done the same way except used more soap, and the baby oil, caster oil,soap lanolin, came to a peanut butter consistency. Added about 5 oz. beeswax and rest of batch #1. This batch I poured into the molds I made. ben.
10660: Felix lube Ben - One of the nice things about Felix lube is that it is easy to apply by hand, lubersizer not required. I cut a 2in x 2in square from a 2 liter soda bottle to use as a "spatual". I use this to smear lube on the bullet. After that I run the edge of the plastic around the bullet like a trowel to clean it up. Not the fastest method, but it beats melting lube out of the lubersizer and we are in experimental mode anyway. When I've added a different lube on top of a previous lube in my sizer the result was a hybrid lube for too long. I asked my 3 daughters to describe the color of Felix lube w/ DexronIII. The best they came up with was "burnt orange" - a crayon color in a Crayola box. I've been clearly labeling my test loads of each lube because once the bullet is seated you can't see the lube anyway. vly.
10598: Felix lube I just tried my hand at making lube today and I'm not sure if its all right. I used the tried and true felix formula, but I've got a few questions. The recipe says to add Ivory soap until it won't melt any more; I could only get a third of a bar of soap in, is that enough? Also, there is a side note about adding parifin. It said two sugar cube size pieces was enough to harden it. My mix took over a half a sheet of parifin to make it hard at room temp. Is this lube still OK to use or did I make a mistake some where along the way? 10fan
10599: Felix lube 10fan, we are going to fix that spot that says add soap until it won't melt any more. That comment assumes a good amount of sodium stearate in the soap, and it looks like now the soap formula has been changed. So, from now on, the formula will say "no more than one heaping tablespoon's worth when all slivered up". No, the lube is not ruined, but it very likely won't do what's expected of it. With that amount of emulsifier (soap), it won't harden unless tons of paraffin is used like you found out. Therefore, start over by taking some of that already made, using it because it has good soap and paraffin content. Now add that to the new mix, say three tablespoons worth, and let the new batch cool. If you see no layering of different stuff when breaking the new batch open, you've added enough of the one with the soap and paraffin....Don't waste anything. The only time to consider throwing anything away is when you see terrible grain when breaking the lube open. Happens when something was used which causes the grains to grow upon cooling, and this happens when researching odd things to add. It's getting real apparant that we have to get pure sodium sterate and forget the soap all together.......felix
10604: Felix lube felix, Thanks for the info. I kind of figured something was wrong when I started adding all of that paraffin and it wasn't getting hard. I'll give it another try day after tomorrow. 10fan
10631: Felix lube felix - I have some stearic acid. Would that be of any use in the lube?
10637: Felix lube felix: Called PROCTER&GAMBLE (Ivory soap) at 1-800-395-9960) was told there has been no change in ivory soap, still the same as the original. Also check out web site, www.ivory.com It gives the ingredients. It worked fine for me last week. ben.
10642: Felix lube Donny, you lucky guy....1 level teaspoon per recipe in lieu of sodium stearate. You should have zero need for hardening up with paraffin. If you want to make the lube harder after making the lube, reheat the lube using another teaspoon of stearic acid. Continue, and report back on how much stearic acid was required to make your batch just right for the luber machine......felix
10643: Felix lube Ben, this is strange, not the use of vegatable oils, but the lack of intentional stearate addition. It's probably OK for them to say what they indicate, because stearates are formed during the process of "cooking" the oil to make a solid bar. Actually, sodium stearate will not be formed unless sodium hydroxide is present as a catalyst. Even without the use of sodium hydroxide, stearic acid is formed somehow. Anyway we look at it, it appears adding too much becomes a headache in that we have to go backwards and stiffen our lube with the addition of the beeswax and/or paraffin....Maybe different lots of the soap act differently as well. It doesn't matter like you say, because enough of us have been making good lube on the first goaround. Let's wait and see what happens when pure stearic acid is used......felix
10648: Felix lube Felix - I found a chemical supply house which sells sodium stearate as well as stearic acid. Their advertising slogan is "from a gram to a bargeload". www.kyantec.com/catalog.htm#CATALOG takes you to the list of chemicals they offer. I sent e-mail inquiring about prices for sodium stearate. I didn't see the discussion on stearic acid until after. Which do you think is preferred? Or just try both? I made some more lube this week substituting Dexron III ATF for the mineral oil. Came out good, more of a burnt orange color than the "original" formula. Lubed some bullets but have not shot any yet. Will let you know what I hear back from Antec, or you can contact them directly.
10652: Felix lube Vly, I can see you are having fun doing this lube stuff. I am hoping a bunch of us can share in its fun and report back both good and bad findings. It would be interesting to see the effects of using III as opposed to mineral oil. Now, there should be one more assignment before we go to a different "soap". Use "pure" neatsfoot oil in lieu of the III, and of the mineral oil. Hopefully, all three lubes will show identical results, showing us good enough that mineral oil, vegetable oil, and animal oil compositions have no adversive effects when using beeswax as a principal carrier. We really can't count lanolin as being an animal oil because it acts more like a wax via its molecular structure. After making the lubes, place them on a piece of tin foil on the window sill and see how they act in the sun. If they get too hot and slump for practical shooting situations, we can alter the formula to use lithium or barium stearate instead of the sodium. The reason I havn't mentioned these two stearates so far is because the lube made with them might not melt properly in a cold barrel when hunting, giving a poor POI result. Also, do a POI test when going out to compare lubes, because the first shot might be the only one that counts in a live situation. I went to the web page, and they don't list the other stearates. No doubt they can get them, but I'm afraid of the costs. These stearates should cost no more than a buck a pound, and that's all we need for a "lifetime" supply. For us low volume cats, the price might be 5 bucks delivered for a pound...a fair price. But, I bet the speciality outfits will give us their special internet deal at 25 bucks and think they are giving us a real break. Let's look around some more before we commit....felix
10653: Felix lube felix,10fan: Ivory soap came in a 4 bar package. Put 3 bars with the family soap, but decided I better put them in my gunroom, as all 4 bars most likely came off the same batch. 10fan I think you used 10 times more then I did. This is not exact but I probably used enough slivers (sliced thin) to cover a 3 inch circle. I shot my whelen today with 245grain bullets. Fastest load was about 2300 fps. Felix lube above rcbs lube. Don't beleave I reached felix lube yet. Maybe next one's I lube. Color is the same. Anyway didn't lead the gun. The next time I make lube I'll weigh the soap. Using my head for a change, I looked at the bar of soap. I used exactly 1/4 inch off the end of the bar for 2 batches. Felix does that sound about right. ben.
10654: Felix lube felix: I know the color of the ivory soap batch. Somebody said dextron 111 was orange. Now we have neatsfoot oil. Have a bottle of neatsfoot oil and bottle of Dextron 111. What we need is a coloring plan. Something to vary the colors on the lube, otherwise we'll have to keep melting the lube out of the sizers. Be nice to identify the lube on the bullets by color. ben.
10655: Felix lube Ben, looks darn good to me based on your results. Write the recipe down for us before we forget what you did...the specs on castpics will be altered to reflect everybody's results...felix
10657: Felix lube Ben, I hear ya'. My complaint too without resorting to the crayons laying around here. I have been pan lubbing different ones, and only the lube I have the most of is in the resovoir for volume pistol use. I use lube pressure when sizing to make sure every nook and cranny gets lube after pan lubing, but not enough gets into the groves to alter the effects of the lube already in the grooves. Hopefully, after everyone agrees for the "best universal formula" we can just mix what has been made to date into one glob and use it up, or just give it to a new shooter coming on line.....felix
10660: Felix lube Ben - One of the nice things about Felix lube is that it is easy to apply by hand, lubersizer not required. I cut a 2in x 2in square from a 2 liter soda bottle to use as a "spatual". I use this to smear lube on the bullet. After that I run the edge of the plastic around the bullet like a trowel to clean it up. Not the fastest method, but it beats melting lube out of the lubersizer and we are in experimental mode anyway. When I've added a different lube on top of a previous lube in my sizer the result was a hybrid lube for too long. I asked my 3 daughters to describe the color of Felix lube w/ DexronIII. The best they came up with was "burnt orange" - a crayon color in a Crayola box. I've been clearly labeling my test loads of each lube because once the bullet is seated you can't see the lube anyway.
10661: Felix lube felix: Per your request. I made 2 batches of lube, ONE batch at a time. TOTAL incredients used. 4 tbs. baby oil--2 tbs. odorless caster oil--1/4 inch ivory soap from the bar end--2 tbs. lanolin SLIGHLY rounded--2 sugar cube parrafin--8 oz. beeswax. FIRST batch: Followed felix's cooking instructions to the letter as far as the baby oil,caster oil,soap,lanolin. This mixture was fairly liquid when I added 3 oz. beeswax(approx). I thought still to liquid, so added 2 sugar cubes parrafin. I filled one of my lubisizers with half of this. What was left over used in the second batch. Second batch done the same way except used more soap, and the baby oil, caster oil,soap lanolin, came to a peanut butter consistency. Added about 5 oz. beeswax and rest of batch #1. This batch I poured into the molds I made. ben.
10666: Felix lubes felix: Next batch I make I'm going to use 75 grains ivory soap, and 5 to 6 oz. beeswax. Be wise to weigh these incredients, so can be duplicated. I do feel my first two batches feel and look ok. I'll set some in the sun tomorrow (I hope). But the proof is in the shooting. Guys I don't want anybody to think, this home made lube, has anything to do with me. All I'm doing is what felix says to do. Felix is the brains and I'm just the cook. ben.
10668: Felix lube Like Tom Gray says, it just takes a lot of fooling around to come up with something playful. Maybe he can get some ideas from us working on different aspects; he might even convert his #24 to #24NS, where NS stands for NO-STINK. I hate kitchens myself, and can't stand the smell of food, even today. My dad was one of those speaking "clean house, son, because the poor people have no food". So, I had to eat everything on my plate, and what kid likes asparagus? I queasied up more than once because I ate all that junk to avoid a spanking with "the belt" and "in the basement"....felix
10669: Felix lube Look out, guys, Carpetman is online. Next he's going to suggest just bypassing the gum route and go straight to making toothpaste....by lapping the barrel with tin oxide and then shooting a teflon wrapped bullet. Wham bam, thank you 50-110, Stannous floride for my sore tooth!.....felix
10678: Felix lube Ammohead, have you done any shooting with the "peanut oil" additive yet? We're counting on seeing the results so we can add it to the web page as an alternative using a pure vegetable oil in lieu of a mineral or animal oil. After that one, try canola oil and compare. I suspect there will be little difference because the of castor oil factor, being a vegetable oil itself. Castor oil polymerizes when we heat it with mineral oils, and therefore it changes from acting like a pure "vegetable oil". I sure appreciate the support you guys are giving....felix
10684: Felix lube Folks, there's an outfit that sells small quantities of stearic acid and MANY other odd chmicals at http://home.rmci.net/firefox1/. Prices look resonable but because they furnish supplies for ho'made pyrothechnics and rocket motors you have to register with them before you can make a purchase. KevD
10688: Felix lube felix, your thanks is premature, I have not fired anything with the peanut oil version. I have hand lubed some .452 of unknown mould and alas have nothing to fire them in. A casting session is needed as everything that I have casted for arms that I do have is already lubed with LBT blue. I will get casting soon. ammohead.
10691: Felix lube Donny, you can make the lube yourself and report back, and that would be best because then we all would get another input, yours. But, if you feel cooking is not in your cards right now, I will gladly make a lube using it. If so, then please send 5 level tablespoons, which would be enough in case of starting over, sealed in sandwich wrapper with as little air captured as possible, and then enclose that in a heavy envelope and send it to the castpics photo address. Thanks a bunch, Donny, for your consideration....felix
10695: Felix lube Kev, that internet chemical house looks OK. However, like the others found so far, this one does not stock all the stearates that are of interest. It would be nice to get several in one shipment....I am still trying to get a "real" supplier having a bunch of samples to send out just for the asking. Wilco did this once, but I don't think they were into Lithium and Barium....felix
10879: Felix `Original` Lube vs Felix Lube with ATF I recently mixed up a batch of lube following the Felix formula, but substituting Dexron III ATF for the mineral oil. Everything else was to the recipe. Today I fired a sample of each in a direct comparison. I lubed 10 bullets with Felix original and 10 with Felix with ATF. The bullet is the RCBS 240gr SWC-GC - loaded over 21.0 grs WC-820, with Fed #155M primers in new Starline brass. This load chronos 1603 fps in my 44 Mag Contender. Cleaned the barrel with Eds Red and then dry patched. First fired 10 shot group at 25 yds with the "original" lube. Ten consecutive shots measured 2.8 inches. First and last shots were in the group. Checked for leading by running a piece of paper towel down the bore but no leading. The bright sun off the snow also worked as the worlds brightest bore light. Cleaned with Eds Red and dry patched to restore the same bore condition. Then fired 10 consecutive shots with the lube using ATF. This group measured 2.32 inches and again no leading. Both loads shot to the same impact point. I don't believe the half inch decrease in group size is statistically significant, but the overall results show this lube works. Next I'm going to try the plain base Lyman 429421 with both lubes and see how fast it will go. I already know there is an accuracy point at 19.0gr of WC-820 with 429421 and Felix lube. I think it will be interesting to go from 19 to 21 grs with both lubes on the plain base bullet and see what happens. Dadant & Sons -- beeswax 51 South 2nd Street Stop 2 Hamilton, IL 62341 (217) 847-3324 "http://www.the-sage.com/catalog/catalog.html" .... 2200 Anhydrous Lanolin 16 oz wt $8.75 ship wt. 1.25 lbs .... 5 lbs, per lb $8.25 .... 10 lbs, per lb $7.75 .... Call these guys too, and see what they offer: O'Gorman Enterprises (406) 436-2234 sells anhydrous lanolin in gallons, pints or 4oz jars. .... 11201: Felix lube At the risk of spoiling a lot of fun, here is another recipe for making your own lube. Use half Vaseline and half strained beeswax; melt the two ingredients, add two tubes of Outers Gunslick, and stir the stuff together. It works like a charm, and the stuff will cookie cutter if you wish, or you can cast it into sticks and use it in a sizer die. I am shooting quite a few bullets now without sizing, and I have found that I can melt the lube, pan the bullets and pour the lube around them, then let the stuff sit until it "freezes". If you time it right and the lube is just a touch warm, you can dump the entire block of lube from whatever it is in (I use a pie pan) and push the bullets out of the lube from the back side. What could be easier? No stink, no mad wife, and a bunch of lube for darned little cost. This is basically the old Emmert lube, and it works wonders. There are lots of variations, one being half solid Crisco and half Wesson oil, with a tablespoon of RCBS case lube (or STP Oil Treatment) added for a little extra slickum. But either way, add the Gunslick. The graphite suspended in grease is the secret. 11150: Felix lube felix: Someone posted peanut oil lube is sticky. They sure are right. My mix started with 100 grains ivory, 8oz beeswax, and normal felix incredients, and instructions. To eliminate stickiness, and to harden, added parrafin. I added to much, so added some vaseline. This eliminated most of the stickiness. The lube is darker than mineral oil lube. My lube molds working just fine, The lube pushes right out if cooled to the right temperature. Sure method is to let cool, and use a hair drier. Mineral oil less trouble to make. Will try transmission oil today. ben. 11151: Felix lube felix: My previous post stating peanut oil comes out darker, than mineral oil, might not be correct. Mineral oil, I only heated once. Peanut oil I reheated 3 times, and 1 stick 4 times, and that one, is a little darker, than the other four sticks, that were reheated 3 times. I'm thinking each time, the lube is reheated, it get's a little darker. Have you formed an opinion on this? Or maybe I got the lube to hot. ben. 11165: Felix lube felix: I only reheated the lube till it melted. Just finished the dextron oil batch. Used ivory flakes, till it started to stiffen, slightly. Used 6 oz. beeswax. I like how this turned out. I thought the color would be red but to my surprise came out camel or tan. I'm going to do neatsfoot oil next, and that will be it. The only one I shot with, was mineral oil, up to 2100 fps. I'm going to have to start testing this stuff. ben.
11102: Felix lube felix, i was in wal-mart and decided to look at indredient lists on lipstick. first of all i got some strange looks. i told you this was going to happen! next, some little girls breezed down the isle and giggled. sheeesh! well, i persisted in the indomitable "drive on soldier" spirit. what i found was alot of things that included aluminum and titanium. i think this is stuff i do not want down the bore. my chemist friend slash night operator told me to be sure to look for this stuff. what now? victoria's secret for some of the really expensive stuff? maybe i'll just leaver be. tan is a nice color.... anyway, i shot some yesterday on 311041 checked and loaded with 29.0 imr3031 in mdl 94 30-30. this is two grains over max in lyman's 47th. 27.0 should yield around 2000. shoots a decent group at 100 yards. not until this morning did i realize that there was little or no smoke. the bore is clean. next will be to try in my world famous ought six load that does so well in my 03. i used the basic formula and hardened with two oversized 'sugar cubes' of parafin. made it thrusday and so far no leaking on the paper towel. so far, i am impressed. sundog
11091: Felix lube I made a batch of Felix' lube last night. I used our homemade soap, rather than Ivory. By watching closely as I heated it in a shallow pan, it was possible to see when what I assume was the correct amount of soap was added. As the slivers are added and you stir, the oils will remain separate until the mixture reaches the saturation point. When you are stirring and no longer see definite diffences in the mix, I believe you probably have sufficient soap. If your measuring isn't exact, or you try other additives, I believe the amount of soap will not be a constant amount, but will vary with the individual formula. I hope this helps out someone who is also working on this project.
11079: Felix lube Some time ago I asked if any of you guys had a recipe for a home made lube using peanut oil. None had the recipe that I was looking for but Felix provided his lube recipe. I got lucky and found my can of lube in the basement with the recipe marked in black marker on the lid of the one gallon paint can which I use to mix and store my lubes in. If you live in or near a large city where there are large paint stores, they will sell new one gallon paint cans for about a buck each. I use them for all my lube making and then store the finished product right in the can. If you want to add a little more of one or more ingredients, you just put the can on a hot plate and melt and then stir it in. Also, you can heat it up when you need to add some to your lubesizer and pour or dip some right into the machine. Who needs sticks of lube? I have used this lube in pistol loads for the 45 ACP. It works well with no leading. These were low velocity target loads. The fellow who gave it to me told me that he used it in his 30-06 at 2400 feet per second with no leading. I have no further information on his bullet alloy or powder charge. I have not tried it myself in rifles. Here is the recipe in the event that some of you may with to try it, since there seems to be a lot of interest in lubes. All measurements are by weight. 80% beeswax 10% peanut oil 10% Ivory Soap flakes Melt beeswax and then add peanut oil. Get it pretty hot, just short of smoking. Then add Ivory Soap flakes a little at a time until disolved. It takes quite a while to get the soap into the mix, so be patient and do not add too much at one time. You can shave it off with a razor blade if you wish. I use an old cheese grater purchased at a garage sale for a quarter. cdaher
11201: Felix lube At the risk of spoiling a lot of fun, here is another recipe for making your own lube. Use half Vaseline and half strained beeswax; melt the two ingredients, add two tubes of Outers Gunslick, and stir the stuff together. It works like a charm, and the stuff will cookie cutter if you wish, or you can cast it into sticks and use it in a sizer die. I am shooting quite a few bullets now without sizing, and I have found that I can melt the lube, pan the bullets and pour the lube around them, then let the stuff sit until it "freezes". If you time it right and the lube is just a touch warm, you can dump the entire block of lube from whatever it is in (I use a pie pan) and push the bullets out of the lube from the back side. What could be easier? No stink, no mad wife, and a bunch of lube for darned little cost. This is basically the old Emmert lube, and it works wonders. There are lots of variations, one being half solid Crisco and half Wesson oil, with a tablespoon of RCBS case lube (or STP Oil Treatment) added for a little extra slickum. But either way, add the Gunslick. The graphite suspended in grease is the secret.
11228: Felix lube Felix I have made some of your lube,I could not yet ivory soap here in Australia , my local chemist suggested I tried pears transparent soap , as he thinks this is the closest we would have to Ivory ,it seemed to work O K .I first made it a bit soft and the lube tended to come off the bullets when they were handled , I then added more beeswax, [which use cheap here] and it now works Fine , I have tried it out in a 357 mag and a 45 colt with loads that tended to lead rather heavily, allmost no leading, what there was wiped out straight away with one pass of the cleaning rod using eds red , seems to be the best lube I have used so far ,thanks very much . regards David
11488: Felix lube In our house, we haven't bought soap for about 4 years. Before Carpetman launches in with hygene jokes, I will explain. My girlfriend developed psoriasis, and was irritated by the smelly stuff that they put in store bought soap. So we started making it ourselves, using lard (30%) and vegetable oil for the remainder, and then superfatting with about 1:10 by volume castor oil, and an appropriate colour crayon. Would the homemade product be more or less desirable in a home made lube than the bought stuff ? logan
11492: Felix lube Go for it, Logan! The lard in your soap could be a small problem, so start with a one-half size lube batch and see if the lube stays together after cooling, and after re-mixing by hand, paying attention to feel. If it feels right, go ahead and shoot it and tell us how it did. If not, then use it for a great flux so there would be no economic loss...felix
11496: Felix lube I also used our homemade soap for my lube, and it worked great.
11498: Felix lube Waksupi, are you using an animal lard in your soap? If so, then that won't be a concern for the rest of us. Lanolin is an animal derivitive, but it is a wax chemically, and is not a grease per se. Therefore, it cannot be considered an animal substance in the purest sense. Same as castor oil versus castor wax (hydrogenated castor oil). The oil has a vegatable foundation, whereas the wax does not as far as we are concerned when mixing stuff....felix
11500: Felix lube Ben, are you doing the neatsfoot oil lube? If this is working good, then using animal derived soap is positive proof there should be no concern.....felix
11525: Felix lube felix: I've shot up to 2300 fps with neatsfoot, dextron, mineral, and peanut oil. As far as I could tell there was no difference. I was just testing for leading, not accuracy. Each left some specks of lead on the cleaning patch. Beleave harder than bhn 5 would of eliminated that. Will try bhn 12 or 16 next. I formed no opinion which worked best. Mineral oil went thru my lyman lubersizer ok. The rest were pan lubed, and that worked out ok. I do like the color of neatsfoot oil. You can find neatsfoot oil on the shoe polish shelf that handles Ki Wi products. shuz: waiting for a upgrade disc on netscape, hopefully that will fix my e-mail. ben.
11548: Felix lube I've been using the orginal felix lube for a little while now and it bas been working great. No leading, accuracy is good, and barrel looks clean, only one small observation: I seem to be getting a little bit of smoke. I have noticed the same effect with commercial cast bullets and other lubes. I have read else where that the smoke is caused by excess lube being burned off. I have decreased my lubing to only 1 groove and that seems to have helped a little. I'm probably spliting hairs, but is there something that I can add to the lube to help keep the smoke down? I'm shooting a semi-auto 10mm and the smoke gets noticeable after a while. 10fan
17918: Felix lube I use alot of range scrap, ALOT. I have no idea of BH, all I know is that my cast bullets shoot better than I do in rifle and pistol. Everything goes in, jacketed, balls, .22 slugs and a healthy portion of cneter fire lead slugs. You would be amazed at the number of slugs dug out of the range that still have a full load of lube. It makes me wonder how any lubing is going on with them. I've had lube splatter IDPA silhouettes at close range, and everybody had a good laugh. So what, it's working! When the lube is too hard and the lead is too hard, you're gonna do a lot of cleaning. I've always used softer lubes (except Orange Magic for some rifle applications and a particular 9mm load) and now that I have started experimenting with Felix Lube I may not use commercial lubes again, including Orange Magic. Soft and gooing is nice. sundog 12656: Felix lube Went to the range today with "Felix" lubed bullets and am happy to report that it works very well. No leading, a clean bore and easy clean-up: 1 patch with windshield washer fluid followed by 2 with Ed's Red for a pristine bore! Normally it takes 4-6 Ed's Red patches (and ww fluid) for this particular powder-bullet combination (22gr.XMP5744 & Lyman 323470). Having made several batches of Felix lube, let me add a few refinements to the recipe. First, start with 1/2 tsp. of Ivory soap shavings, but no more than 1 tsp. else it won't all dissolve. Second, it's easier to use 1" or 1.25" cubes of beeswax rather than a 1"x4" (or 3") piece. Start with 2 cubes, let the mixture cool for a few hours and test its consistency: If too soft, add another cube. I made the mistake of using a 1"x4" hunk of beeswax and then had to plasticize it with at least 6 TBS. of vaseline. It works quite well, but is softer than I'd like.....maven 12661: Felix lube Went to the range and a feller asked me what kind of rifle I was shooting. Told him a 30-06. He said he'd never heard of that one but could tell I was using Felix Famous Formula Lube....carpetman 12858: Felix Lube Barberx, this is great news! Charlie is right in saying that remelting many times improves the lube because we get better mixing as per contraction/expansion of the molecules. My pan lubes get better everytime they are used, because each time requires a reheat. Like making wine: by the time its all tested, its all gone! The real secret in the lube, though, is the castor oil and lanolin together. The different stearates delivers different properties, like for cold weather, revolvers, high speed/small bore rifle....Did you mix the stearate with the spermaceti, or did Charlie send you the two seperate? You stated that you only used the stearate. With the next batch, you might use neatsfoot oil instead of the mineral oil, and then you'd have an all animal lube. The advantage would be a better lube consistency and should not require as many reheats to work as intended. Theory!!.......felix
12899: Felix Lube Felix, I used the stearate by itself, the spermacetti is for his lube #36ma, I can send you a few spoonfuls if you want. Charlie gave me permission to post his lube if anyone is interested, the one component I'm missing is 600w worm gear lube. I did use his lube as he sent me a small stick, it's very dark brown, stinky, and fairly stiff, shot great in my small trial with pistols. His interest is in Schuetzen rifles, he just plublished a book on them. barberx
12902: Felix Lube Barberx, please post it and we will put it on castpics too. I'm in the process of consolidating what we all have been doing with this Felix Lube. It would be nice for you or one of us to make Charlies #36 and see what it does in comparision to one or several of our lube variations in different guns, calibers, velocities, etc. Where's Ben? Haven't heard from him in a while. He might enjoy this endeavor too.....felix
12730: felix lube I just made a batch of Felix lube. It doesn't seem to set up very hard. I remelted, added more beeswax and still like peanut butter. I remelted again then added some parrafin but it doesn't seem to stiffen very much. I followed the recipe on castpics but I didn't cook the baby oil-castor oil for 1/2 hour. Is this ccoking important to the overall texture of the lube?
12738: felix lube btroj, please state the components you used and in what proportions. Don't fret about it, because we can fix it. If you don't cook the castor oil with the other oil up front, you add significant risk to the castor oil bleeding out of the lube upon sitting. But that's ok if you store your loaded cartridges bullet down; not enough castor oil will come out to hurt the rounds if you shoot them up in a reasonable amount of time. To keep the castor oil in the lube, you need a half hour at about 300 degrees, and this is fortunately a cumulative reaction. In other words, if the finished lube holds up to high heat by stirring the pot bottom, you are in luck. Otherwise more time will be needed. One hour, for example at 200 degrees or so. Not in one sitting (that's too boring), but several sessions are OK. Did you get too much soap in the mix?....felix
12740: felix lube I used 2 tablespoons baby oil, 1 tablespoon castor oil- heated for 5 to 10 minutes just short of smoking. I then added about 3/4 to 1 tablespoonful of ivory soap shavings. When I added the soap I added a fair amount at once. The lube foamed up rapidly so I removed it from the heat, let it cool a bit, and stirred. The soap all dissolved. I then put it back on the heat- it still looked rather frothy. I added about 1 tablespoonful of anhydrous lanolin- this wasn't measured exactly. After mixing well I added about 1/4 of a muffin cup of beeswax, let it all melt and mixed well. I let it cool and thought it looked awful soft so I remelted and added about 1/2 again as much beeswax. Still was soft so I added some parrafin- about the size of 2 caramels. I now have a stiffer mix but it is still relativelt soft- about what I might want for minies in my muzzleloader but way softer than I like for loading into cases. Is this lube supposed to be rather soft? I expected something similar to alox/beeswax. I have to admit- it is very slick on the fingers and if it sticks to bullets and the bore like it does me it should work well- just going to be messy to deal with while loading ammo. Brad
12745: felix lube Brad, it looks perfect to me. Just add more to come up to 50/50 hardness plus or minus. I prefer a little minus, for spring weather, and a little plus for hot weather.....felix
12747: felix lube Brad, for BP don't use baby oil, and substitute with neatsfoot oil. Make a BP batch using neatsfoot oil without the castor oil, and a batch with the castor oil. No cooking required without the castor oil. Test both seperately, using a clean gun for each. Let us know how both formulas performs, and if you could tell the difference using BP. Keep mix records so we can post them in castpics. If the one does not work as well with the castor oil, convert it by using more beeswax to use in your smokeless loads.....felix
12762: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer I purchased a used Lyman Lube/Sizer. It still has some lube in it. I would like to change this to a different type of lube. Any ideas on the best/easy way to clean this thing out. The previous owner said that there was about 3/4 of a new stick in the sizer now. I really don't want to run that many bullets through it just to clean it out. Any help? Thanks
12764: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer 8457, there are several methods that have been discussed on this board in the past. I've done this several times with Lyman and RCBS lubrisizers. What I like to do is remove the die and lock ring and screw the plunger down until stop while removing the old lube being squeezed out. Remove the plunger at this point to avoid damaging the o rings. Then gently heat the lower body to remove the remaining lube. Some people like to boil it out. You can use a hair dryer, torch (be careful with this method), or any other heat for this. Clean it up, install new lube and die, and you're ready to go. I had one a long time ago that had to be completely disassembled and put through a commercial type parts bath in solvent. That one is still working great, too. sundog
12765: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer 8457--Disconnect the linkage,remove the H&I die and top punch and immerse the body in a large kettle of water. Slowly heat the water until the lube starts flowing out. I suggest this be done outdoors, because you'll raise a real stink with the resultant lube soup! Make sure the machined surfaces are the coated with new lube so they don't rust.--Shuz
12768: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer When the wife is not at home, put your lube sizer(minus the rubber seals in luber and dies)on a cookie sheet, with newspaper and foil on top, or whatever, to catch the lube under your sizer. You don't want high heat, just enough to warm it up, and melt the lube and let it drain out. While its warm, you can just wipe off excess lube. That way metal parts always has some kind of lube, so as not to rust.
12770: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer 8457: I usually use a heat lamp or small flood lamp to heat the bottom portion of my RCBS lubesizers to the point where the lube will drip out. This can take a little time, and the temptation is to go do something else while the lube is melting. I had quite a mess to clean up after the last time I pulled that stunt, as I did't get my catch can positioned correctly, and the lube splattered on the floor when it missed the can. The worst lube to get out is the Taurak lube that NECO sells. The stuff is so sticky that you need a can of solvent and a roll of paper towels at hand when messing with it.
12778: Cleaning out a Lyman Lube/sizer Flatlander, do me a favor, please! Melt and stirr two tablespoons of baby oil (mineral oil) or III transmission fluid with one tablespoon of Taurak and let cool. Did they mix with no seperation lines?. Taurak could be a cheap lanolin substitute for smokeless lubes which aren't so sticky!!!. Model19, please do the same with your railroad hotbox lube......felix
12928: Charlie Dell's lube -- #36 guys, here is charles Dell's #36 MA lube, the spermacetti is a waxy substance from sperm whales highly prized for candles, no longer available so now its synaceti 125 from some candle shops. All parts by weight, 1 part lithium stearate,1 part 600w worm gear oil, 1 part beeswax, 1 part lanolin, 1 part synaceti, mix everything except beeswax, heat- takes about 400 f, mix will melt- then jell- then melts again, pour in melted beeswax, bring back up to heat until all melts and no gel remains. BE CAREFUL this stuff is hot. barberx
14757: Ed`s Red on Blackpowder fouling I use: 1 part water, 1 part Murphy's (liquid= ph neutral!) and 1 part 2-propanol(iso-propanol, don't smell as nasty as ordinary alcohol!) as a range scrubber. Soak the patches plenty, scrub, wait and then use a dry patch. Works great on (even wery!) hard BP fouling in the barrel. Ed's red is best for final cleaning at home (love the lanolin and oil that saturates everything on the gun, and conserves it for eternity)? My $.02 Henrik PS. Felix why not substitute Dexron III with cutting oil (the stuff you use to cool/lube on a lathe, bench drill, you get the picture?) it's highly water soluble, so water can get in the lube that way! Hydrous lanolin in lube as well?
Ed`s Red on Blackpowder fouling Of course, the old tried and true spit is good. Then I found that for some reason, if you chew Copenhagen, there is something in the saliva that REALLY DOES seem to make a tighter group. I quit using that particular lube, because of a request from her who must be obeyed. Then I shot bear oil for several years, with acceptable accuracy, and then whale oil for a few years. These were OK, but I did get fouling after maybe 12-15 shots, not to mention smoldering patches that was unacceptable in the dry woods here. I also have tried Vaseline Intensive Care Lotion, tincture of green soap, and Bore Butter. They all had their drawbacks. Bore butter was my past years experiment, and it worked fairly well during warm weather, but at the winter shoots, it nearly put me, and other users, clear out of the action, due to the hardening effect of the temperature. I've finally lit on the old Moose Milk (12-1 water soluble machinist oil and water) mixture that I first tried twenty plus years ago as something I can shoot, regardless of weather, and get almost no fouling, and good accuracy.